I discovered this weekend that Amy and I have been reading some of the same books over the last few months, although we haven't had any book club communications.
So I thought maybe in lieu of meeting, we could discuss what we've been reading here, and share reccomendations and opinions.
This is what I've read in the last few months, since our last meeting:
Charlotte Bronte-- Villette, Jane Eyre, The Professor
Emily Bronte-- Wuthering Heights
Jane Austin-- Mansfield Park, Sense and Sensibility, and (in progress) Persuasion
I also read "The No 1 Ladies Detective Agency," which my mother gave me for Christmas, and a couple of other really pretty frivolous novels.
Needless to say, I've been busy! I haven't read this many novels together since highschool, I think. The thing is that I have discovered that any of these classic works can be easily found online, since they're all public domain. The Charlotte Brontes and Mansfield Park I already owned, but the others I have read entirely on the computer. Not as comfortable as curling up with a book, but beats having to buy them!
Amy and I were discussing Villette, which she hated and I just moderately liked. Be warned, any prospective readers! It is long and slow and generally kind of depressing. Bronte wrote it in a period after she had lost three of her siblings to sickness, and it reflects that melancholy. The Professor, however, is an enjoyable read, not so good as Jane Eyre, but very worthwhile, I thought.
Wuthering Heights is--well, Wuthering Heights. It is particularly grim, and not particularly moral, but it is a riveting story.
Jane Austin, on the other hand, is always a cheerful read. I found Sense and Sensibility and (thus far) Persuasion to be thoroughly enjoyable, and always entertaining. I must say, though, I'm a little put off by the picture of my advanced age conjured up by these books. In Persuasion the heroine is an entire 27, and "past the bloom of youth," as well as being considered a definite old maid. Yikes! Of course, I guess that becomes more understandable when you consider their evidently short life expectancy. In Sense and Sensibility, there is mention that the 40 year old Mrs. Dashwood might live another 15 years, and the 35 year old Colonel Brandon might live another 20! (Of course, both people making such comments do so spitefully, so cannot be take to be reliable, but still....)
Mansfield Park is a little different from the other Austens. I find from reading that it is the most controversial of her novels, and the heroine the least liked. I did like her, although I also found myself wishing she would buck up and grow a back bone some of the time. It is a more serious book, and a deeply moral one. The heroine, Fanny Price, is almost as opposite to Elizabeth Bennett as you could get--she's timid, humble and serious. She's quiet, smart but not witty, insecure and desirous of nothing more than being overlooked. But she has very strong moral principles and convictions, and on them alone she will not be moved, however much it distresses her to be pressured to do so. This has led to many critics calling her "priggish." I can not agree, since I certainly don't believe that moral principles should ever be compromised, but she does seem to lack in personality sometimes. At one point there's a worldly man-about-town who falls passionately in love with her, and you can't help but wonder why. Ahh well. Still a good book though.
I'm reading Persuasion right now, and it bids fair to become my favorite Jane Austen yet. I'll post about it later.
So: what have you been reading, and what did you like or dislike? Have you read any of the books I have? Come, let's talk!
Monday, February 23, 2009
Saturday, January 3, 2009
More on the same book
Okay, so we obviously didn't meet in November. Or December. It turns out that it's harder to get together a few housewives than one may have thought. Especially since several of them work part time, and a few of them went out of town for the holidays (or had company, like I did).
I hope we will get a chance to get together and discuss this book soon--if only so that we can move on to the next one. This really is a good book, though. I even gave it to my sister-in-law as a Christmas present!
I attempted to make use of one of her suggestions for Christmas this year, that of having your children do chores to earn money to give to Jesus. My sons just turned four, and although they don't count very well, they sure enjoy collecting coins. So I got out my coin jar, and I gave each of them a small paper bag which they got to decorate. Then I wrote "Joshua's gift to Jesus," and "Daniel's gift to Jesus" on them, folded down and stapled the top shut, and cut a slit for them to put the change into. I talked to them about giving to Jesus, and how that means giving to someone else since you can't really give money to Jesus Himself (a bit of a difficult concept for that age). Then I started encouraging them to do chores, and paid them generously in coins for them. I can't say that I was very systematic in my approach, and it pretty well broke down completely after my parents arrived (and everyone got sick). In the end I got rid of all my change, though.
Noel Piper writes that on Christmas Eve they would have each of their children place their little sacks of money by a nativity scene, and then during the night they would take the money out and put some presents in, like stockings. That seems like a neat idea, but I decided that for our small children I wanted them to be clear about what was happening to the money. I didn't want it to mysteriously "disappear" like a reverse Santa Claus. So I thought that the best thing would be to take them to the store, let them put their change into the machines there and get the paper money out, put in a envelope, and then at church have them put the envelope in the offering plate. That way they know that they're giving it to the church. We haven't actually done that yet (did I mention that basically the whole family except me was sick?), but we will! Eventually.
Next year I hope to approach all of this with a better plan, and to start it earlier. I started late this year. I am glad for the idea, though, and hope to integrate more such ideas into our holiday celebrations. The best thing about Noel Piper's book is that it gives a way of thinking about special occasions (and even everyday rituals), and approaching them as being opportunities for teaching both our children and our selves about who God is, what He has done, and everything He has promised to do for us in the future.
I hope we will get a chance to get together and discuss this book soon--if only so that we can move on to the next one. This really is a good book, though. I even gave it to my sister-in-law as a Christmas present!
I attempted to make use of one of her suggestions for Christmas this year, that of having your children do chores to earn money to give to Jesus. My sons just turned four, and although they don't count very well, they sure enjoy collecting coins. So I got out my coin jar, and I gave each of them a small paper bag which they got to decorate. Then I wrote "Joshua's gift to Jesus," and "Daniel's gift to Jesus" on them, folded down and stapled the top shut, and cut a slit for them to put the change into. I talked to them about giving to Jesus, and how that means giving to someone else since you can't really give money to Jesus Himself (a bit of a difficult concept for that age). Then I started encouraging them to do chores, and paid them generously in coins for them. I can't say that I was very systematic in my approach, and it pretty well broke down completely after my parents arrived (and everyone got sick). In the end I got rid of all my change, though.
Noel Piper writes that on Christmas Eve they would have each of their children place their little sacks of money by a nativity scene, and then during the night they would take the money out and put some presents in, like stockings. That seems like a neat idea, but I decided that for our small children I wanted them to be clear about what was happening to the money. I didn't want it to mysteriously "disappear" like a reverse Santa Claus. So I thought that the best thing would be to take them to the store, let them put their change into the machines there and get the paper money out, put in a envelope, and then at church have them put the envelope in the offering plate. That way they know that they're giving it to the church. We haven't actually done that yet (did I mention that basically the whole family except me was sick?), but we will! Eventually.
Next year I hope to approach all of this with a better plan, and to start it earlier. I started late this year. I am glad for the idea, though, and hope to integrate more such ideas into our holiday celebrations. The best thing about Noel Piper's book is that it gives a way of thinking about special occasions (and even everyday rituals), and approaching them as being opportunities for teaching both our children and our selves about who God is, what He has done, and everything He has promised to do for us in the future.
Saturday, November 29, 2008
Kristy's comments
Go check out Kristy's comments at her blog. I enjoyed reading her comments. Thanks for posting, Kristy!
Friday, November 21, 2008
Favorite Quotes
I've been reading the first section of Noel Piper's book, printed off the internet. It really is wonderful, speeking first of all of the meaning and importance of traditions in the life of the Christ. Noel teaches that the point of traditions is to teach ourselves, remind ourselves, about God. A tradition is something that must be done regularly, repetitively, and it is a way of setting God before our eyes, of recalling Him and the things He has done to mind, and celebrating them. If you have children, then traditions are an important way to teach them the same things.
Here are some of my favorite quotes:
"We who are trusting Christ are the heirs of our Father, God. But what is the inheritance that we want from our Father? In this passage, Paul pictures us calling to him, "Abba! Father!" We are like children at the end of a long day. The only things we want is our abba, our daddy. The yearning of our hearts is for him. And that is the great treasure we inherit from our heavely Father--Himself." (p 15)
"In the book of Exodus, Moses displays his understanding of the nature of children and the responsibility of parents: 'And when your children say to you, "What do you mean by this service?" you shall say, "It is the sacrifice of the Lord's passover, for He passed over the houses of the people of Israel in Egypt."'
Moses assumes children will ask why. And he instructs parents to give an answer that speaks of reality. This instruction is all in the context of laying our for children ceremonies that will portray the answer. He is giving them the answer, both spoken and displayed. And the answer is God--God saved us, and we honor Him, worship Him, thank Him. We and our children need this kind of yearly repetition to impress us with the weight of what God has done." (p 17)
"Things like that don't just happen. They come first from our own hearts that are tuned in to God. Then they happen because we plan to include our children in the God-air we breathe. Without planning, we'll practice our Bible memory just once or twice and then no more. We'll do lots of good things, but only a couple of times. [Man hasn't that been true in my life!] One of the great strengths of good traditions in our lives is the repetition--not something done once, then something else, then another thing altogether, but good things done regularly, dependably, until they become habits." (p 25)
"The things we do regularly that help us in our deepest being to know and love and want God, the things that help our lives to be infiltrated with God--those things are tradition. And then if there are children in our lives, to pass these God-focused activities to the next generation--that's what tradition is for a Christian." (p 25)
[Speaking of Pslam 78] "It’s easy to see, though, that the writer is not giving us a specific generation count. What he’s doing is looking so far backward and so far into the future that we know he means all generations of those who follow the God of Abraham. Of course, we
don’t know exactly how many generations have come before us, and we don’t know
how many generations will be born in the future. That’s not the point. Here’s the psalmist’s point: Beginning with God’s call of Abraham—the time when there began to be a particular people called “God’s people”—God commanded adults to teach the children. We are part of a millennia-long line, with the same command and responsibility to teach our children that the first generation had." (p 31)
All of this is helping to give me a greater reverance for the traditions that we engage in, and a sense of their importance, not just in our lives as a whole, but in our spiritual lives. I truly want to form traditions that will not just be fun, but teach our children the value and greatness of God.
Here are some of my favorite quotes:
"We who are trusting Christ are the heirs of our Father, God. But what is the inheritance that we want from our Father? In this passage, Paul pictures us calling to him, "Abba! Father!" We are like children at the end of a long day. The only things we want is our abba, our daddy. The yearning of our hearts is for him. And that is the great treasure we inherit from our heavely Father--Himself." (p 15)
"In the book of Exodus, Moses displays his understanding of the nature of children and the responsibility of parents: 'And when your children say to you, "What do you mean by this service?" you shall say, "It is the sacrifice of the Lord's passover, for He passed over the houses of the people of Israel in Egypt."'
Moses assumes children will ask why. And he instructs parents to give an answer that speaks of reality. This instruction is all in the context of laying our for children ceremonies that will portray the answer. He is giving them the answer, both spoken and displayed. And the answer is God--God saved us, and we honor Him, worship Him, thank Him. We and our children need this kind of yearly repetition to impress us with the weight of what God has done." (p 17)
"Things like that don't just happen. They come first from our own hearts that are tuned in to God. Then they happen because we plan to include our children in the God-air we breathe. Without planning, we'll practice our Bible memory just once or twice and then no more. We'll do lots of good things, but only a couple of times. [Man hasn't that been true in my life!] One of the great strengths of good traditions in our lives is the repetition--not something done once, then something else, then another thing altogether, but good things done regularly, dependably, until they become habits." (p 25)
"The things we do regularly that help us in our deepest being to know and love and want God, the things that help our lives to be infiltrated with God--those things are tradition. And then if there are children in our lives, to pass these God-focused activities to the next generation--that's what tradition is for a Christian." (p 25)
[Speaking of Pslam 78] "It’s easy to see, though, that the writer is not giving us a specific generation count. What he’s doing is looking so far backward and so far into the future that we know he means all generations of those who follow the God of Abraham. Of course, we
don’t know exactly how many generations have come before us, and we don’t know
how many generations will be born in the future. That’s not the point. Here’s the psalmist’s point: Beginning with God’s call of Abraham—the time when there began to be a particular people called “God’s people”—God commanded adults to teach the children. We are part of a millennia-long line, with the same command and responsibility to teach our children that the first generation had." (p 31)
All of this is helping to give me a greater reverance for the traditions that we engage in, and a sense of their importance, not just in our lives as a whole, but in our spiritual lives. I truly want to form traditions that will not just be fun, but teach our children the value and greatness of God.
Tuesday, October 28, 2008
November's Book
Our book for November is by Noel Piper, "Treasuring God in Your Traditions." Grab a copy of the book and start reading. It's a fairly short book, so we can pass around the copies that we do have. Get the word out so we can start looking at dates.
(Following blurb directly quoted from Desiring God website) You can also read the book online from this link. Hmm...sounds like a good idea!
"Only God can bequeath God to our children. But he uses means. He uses God-centered traditions and Bible-saturated family patterns and grace-laden heirlooms.
Only God can give our children a taste for the sweetness of God. Only God can awaken them to his worth. But year in and year out there are traditions that show them: God is our Treasure.
After more than 30 years of marriage and childrearing, Noël Piper opens her home to you. She invites you into the happy, imperfect Piper pattern of life. Come with her and enjoy the way she helps us treasure God in our traditions."
(Following blurb directly quoted from Desiring God website) You can also read the book online from this link. Hmm...sounds like a good idea!
"Only God can bequeath God to our children. But he uses means. He uses God-centered traditions and Bible-saturated family patterns and grace-laden heirlooms.
Only God can give our children a taste for the sweetness of God. Only God can awaken them to his worth. But year in and year out there are traditions that show them: God is our Treasure.
After more than 30 years of marriage and childrearing, Noël Piper opens her home to you. She invites you into the happy, imperfect Piper pattern of life. Come with her and enjoy the way she helps us treasure God in our traditions."
Thursday, October 16, 2008
First book club meeting
The book club meeting was postponed until this last Tuesday, but finally we met! There were only four of us, but we had such a good time... for all of you who might be contemplating coming. We stayed up late trying to watch as much of a five-hour version of P&P as we could, but any one could have left at any time. There were even snacks.
Thursday, September 25, 2008
further observations on P&P
Okay, I've got some more thoughts, now that I've finished the book.
It seems to me that Jane Austen's characters are not generally very complex. Most of them are "character" parts, as it were, designed to represent a certain type of person. Whatever part that person is given to fill--the shameless flirt, the charming scoundrel, the vulgar match-making mother, or the pompous nobody--they play it to the end. The only character who really changes at all is Darcy, and his change is so dramatic as to be difficult to comprehend (although we're supposed to believe that he was always really this way, which is harder still to comprehend in a way). Even Elizabeth, although she changes her mind, and is humbled, doesn't really change her personality. Jane looses a little of her all-encompassing faith people's goodness, but not much. Mr. Bennett does repent of his disinterest in his family, and so grows wiser, but pretty well every one else just stays the same, and acts one role and one role only. This is not a criticism of the book, since we all enjoy the skill with which Austen portrays these personality types, just an observation.
I think I could have gone further in that conversation about Darcy which I quoted from in my first post. Mary makes a comment about the difference between pride and vanity which I think is significant--she notes that pride has to do with what you think of yourself, and vanity with what others think of you. There are many vain characters in the book, but Darcy isn't really one of them. He manifestly doesn't care much for what people think about him, or he would make more of an effort to endear himself to them. He does care what he thinks of himself, though, and holds himself strictly to his own standards. With Elizabeth he learns to exert himself for someone else, and to care how his words and actions may appear to her.
Wickham is just the opposite. He is very vain, doing everything in his power to win love and praise and to appear honorable and long suffering. He doesn't have enough "pride" (in the terms described above) to actually trouble to be any of these things, just the vanity to want others to think he is.
It seems to me that Jane Austen's characters are not generally very complex. Most of them are "character" parts, as it were, designed to represent a certain type of person. Whatever part that person is given to fill--the shameless flirt, the charming scoundrel, the vulgar match-making mother, or the pompous nobody--they play it to the end. The only character who really changes at all is Darcy, and his change is so dramatic as to be difficult to comprehend (although we're supposed to believe that he was always really this way, which is harder still to comprehend in a way). Even Elizabeth, although she changes her mind, and is humbled, doesn't really change her personality. Jane looses a little of her all-encompassing faith people's goodness, but not much. Mr. Bennett does repent of his disinterest in his family, and so grows wiser, but pretty well every one else just stays the same, and acts one role and one role only. This is not a criticism of the book, since we all enjoy the skill with which Austen portrays these personality types, just an observation.
I think I could have gone further in that conversation about Darcy which I quoted from in my first post. Mary makes a comment about the difference between pride and vanity which I think is significant--she notes that pride has to do with what you think of yourself, and vanity with what others think of you. There are many vain characters in the book, but Darcy isn't really one of them. He manifestly doesn't care much for what people think about him, or he would make more of an effort to endear himself to them. He does care what he thinks of himself, though, and holds himself strictly to his own standards. With Elizabeth he learns to exert himself for someone else, and to care how his words and actions may appear to her.
Wickham is just the opposite. He is very vain, doing everything in his power to win love and praise and to appear honorable and long suffering. He doesn't have enough "pride" (in the terms described above) to actually trouble to be any of these things, just the vanity to want others to think he is.
Monday, September 22, 2008
thoughts on Pride and Prejudice
Okay, so I finally managed to beg and borrow (actually there wasn't that my begging involved) a copy of P&P from Lori. I have been very excited to read this book, as I haven't read it since I was about fifteen, and I'm not sure if I read it all then. Certainly I am much better able to enjoy it now.
I am about half way through now. In particular I have enjoyed reading the conversations, which always get cut short in the movie versions. Elizabeth's (should I say Jane Austen's?) wit really is splendid. Indeed, poor Mr. Darcy seems almost like a back drop, a foil to set off her sparkling personality. Even he, however, seems to me to have gotten short shrift from most of the movies, which have him barely able to crack a smile even at the end. I noticed several places that it says he smiled, and spoke with warmth or passion.
A few observations:
1) Darcy's and Bingley's relatives are every bit as awful as Elizabeth and Jane's, and just as ill-bred and rude. Their only superior claims are money and education.
2) "His pride," said Miss Lucas, "does not offend me so much as pride often does, because there is an excuse for it. One cannot wonder that so very fine a young man, with family, fortune, everything in his favor, should think highly of himself. If I may so express it, he has a right to be proud." (Ch 5) It seems to me that this quote from the practical Charlotte is, in fact, the key to Darcy's character. Yes, he is proud--but he has good reason for it! His pride not only causes him to think well of himself, but to behave as well too, in accordance with all the principles he believes a man of honor should adhere to.
3) The key to Elizabeth's reaction to him is found in her own words, following Charlotte's: "That is very true," replied Elizabeth, "and I could easily forgive his pride, if he had not mortified mine."
4) Who is proud and who is prejudiced?? This has always been one of the questions of the story to me. Any opinions, any one?
I am about half way through now. In particular I have enjoyed reading the conversations, which always get cut short in the movie versions. Elizabeth's (should I say Jane Austen's?) wit really is splendid. Indeed, poor Mr. Darcy seems almost like a back drop, a foil to set off her sparkling personality. Even he, however, seems to me to have gotten short shrift from most of the movies, which have him barely able to crack a smile even at the end. I noticed several places that it says he smiled, and spoke with warmth or passion.
A few observations:
1) Darcy's and Bingley's relatives are every bit as awful as Elizabeth and Jane's, and just as ill-bred and rude. Their only superior claims are money and education.
2) "His pride," said Miss Lucas, "does not offend me so much as pride often does, because there is an excuse for it. One cannot wonder that so very fine a young man, with family, fortune, everything in his favor, should think highly of himself. If I may so express it, he has a right to be proud." (Ch 5) It seems to me that this quote from the practical Charlotte is, in fact, the key to Darcy's character. Yes, he is proud--but he has good reason for it! His pride not only causes him to think well of himself, but to behave as well too, in accordance with all the principles he believes a man of honor should adhere to.
3) The key to Elizabeth's reaction to him is found in her own words, following Charlotte's: "That is very true," replied Elizabeth, "and I could easily forgive his pride, if he had not mortified mine."
4) Who is proud and who is prejudiced?? This has always been one of the questions of the story to me. Any opinions, any one?
Wednesday, September 17, 2008
Welcome to the Saltshaker Book Club!
Hello, fellow lovers of books! We have started this simple book club to satiate our desires to read and discuss great books among fellow Christians, those who join us in serving our great Lord Jesus! Our desire is that the time we spend in our books and with each other would spur us on to love Jesus and others more.
We will not only be reading Christian authored literature, but also classics and other respectable selections. Our current plan is to read a secular novel one month followed by a Christian authored book the following month and so the pattern repeats. Not all selections will be novels, though. As we select books in advance, we can each purchase or as a group purchase the books. We may even just buy a few copies and pass them around!
So, our first source of entertainment is Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austin. We have planned to meet the last week in September to discuss the book, so you'd better get busy! We're still trying to decide the best time/day to meet. Please comment on this post and let us know when you can or cannot meet and if you'd like to get together and watch a movie version of our book.
We will not only be reading Christian authored literature, but also classics and other respectable selections. Our current plan is to read a secular novel one month followed by a Christian authored book the following month and so the pattern repeats. Not all selections will be novels, though. As we select books in advance, we can each purchase or as a group purchase the books. We may even just buy a few copies and pass them around!
So, our first source of entertainment is Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austin. We have planned to meet the last week in September to discuss the book, so you'd better get busy! We're still trying to decide the best time/day to meet. Please comment on this post and let us know when you can or cannot meet and if you'd like to get together and watch a movie version of our book.
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